tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post8674540282048940271..comments2024-03-27T14:08:51.191-05:00Comments on American Indians in Children's Literature (AICL): What happened to "A Second Perspective" at All The Wonders?Debbie Reesehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-69355789493432311022017-04-12T09:34:26.285-05:002017-04-12T09:34:26.285-05:00It is a problem of thinking about the potential is...It is a problem of thinking about the potential issue. A quick google search for 'pueblo' and 'los alamos' reveals this site, for example, https://sites.coloradocollege.edu/ejsw/2016/11/17/environmental-injustices-for-pueblo-communities-near-los-alamos-national-laboratory/ which clearly indicates that maybe it wasn't so isolated. So although it isn't the focus of the book, perhaps the book could have been more carefully worded with a little effort. <br />mimzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813465548383215042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-9991044591426367482017-04-06T12:06:24.245-05:002017-04-06T12:06:24.245-05:00Anyone who has ever looked at the many and easily-...Anyone who has ever looked at the many and easily-found archival pictures of the region from the early 1940s, seen the desolate area around the "hill," tracked the path of the narrow road up the hill from the junction with the Taos-Santa Fe road, cannot come to any conclusion other than that Los Alamos was isolated. That's why the government bought the school up there to house the Manhattan Project. The focus of the book is the Manhattan Project. It is not the experience of the San Ildefonso Pueblo Indians or numerous others (truck drivers, quartermasters, suppliers, builders, relatives of personnel) who knew that "something" was happening up there. That's an interesting book, a book about the people who knew something was going on up on the hill having to do with the war effort but were big enough patriots to keep their mouths shut and curiosity under control. Someone else should write it. But it's not the focus of this book, and I'm glad it's not this book. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-68511624112399825182017-04-05T07:05:04.950-05:002017-04-05T07:05:04.950-05:00I'm thankful for this discussion. I'm read...I'm thankful for this discussion. I'm reading and learning.Michelle Cusolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637858838936799501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-78440265995442766042017-04-04T16:33:42.755-05:002017-04-04T16:33:42.755-05:00But it isn't just one sentence that Debbie Ree...But it isn't just one sentence that Debbie Reese critiqued. It is the combination of the art and the words erasing the presence of the Pueblo groups that lived (and still live) there. It is the depiction of that area as isolated and empty, when it was not. It is those of you posting as anonymous (are there multiple posters?) that are focusing on that one sentence. But there is more problems with this book then just that, and presenting this book only in a positive light without that context does a disservice to those who use sites like All The Wonders, and to the children who will read the book. There is also the concern of review sites becoming more like a form of marketing for publishers, rather than being a tool for libraries, schools, and readers. <br />~ ZeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-58237368848136213192017-04-04T13:04:24.961-05:002017-04-04T13:04:24.961-05:00"Why are you so invested in (anonymously) tel... "Why are you so invested in (anonymously) telling a Pueblo woman that her reading of a book that takes place on Pueblo lands is invalid?"<br /><br />People aren't "so invested" in that. The question is whether one person's opinion of one poorly worded sentence in an entire book is grounds for dismissal.<br /><br />The other aspect is the interaction between publishers, librarians and reviewers. Everyone has their opinion and is entitled to both their opinion and the reaction of others to that opinion. Accusing reviewers/bloggers of somehow benefiting from their reviews is ridiculous.<br /><br /> Teachers and librarians are fully aware that fiction and non-fiction need contextualization and critical review, especially when used in the classroom. This was an an excellent opportunity to point that out. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-50846584271928325512017-04-03T19:02:39.880-05:002017-04-03T19:02:39.880-05:00Ah, I see that Anonymouses (anonymi?) have checked...Ah, I see that Anonymouses (anonymi?) have checked off the bingo squares of "it's just a couple of words," "why are you making such a big deal?" and the old favorite, "why don't you save your critique for the 'real' problems." Anonymous commenters, the real question is: why are you so invested in (anonymously) telling a Pueblo woman that her reading of a book that takes place on Pueblo lands is invalid? <br /><br />The comments do show why All the Wonders' original invitation to include the review was important, though. And why, in addition to raising questions about the role of blog review sites -- and whose interests they serve -- Winner's decision to remove the review validates the gaslighting and erasure that are all too common.<br /><br />-- Sarah HamburgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-49088550177495059502017-04-03T09:46:27.402-05:002017-04-03T09:46:27.402-05:00This email is directed at Anonymous who says he/sh...This email is directed at Anonymous who says he/she "will stay away from big kidlit bloggers' and "'rock star librarians only praising books and staying away from critique." As a kidlit and YA blogger myself and reviewer for SLJ, I can answer for myself. I give each book my honest opinion. Even if I personally do not like a book, but I can see kid or teen readers that would like it, I review it honestly for them. On my blog http://booksbypamelathompson.blogspot.com/ I only review those books that I recommend. I feel it is difficult for a writer to put words to paper and even more difficult to find an agent and sell a book. It is not my job or calling to crush their creative efforts. If I do not review a book, it it because I personally do not recommend it. If it appears on my blog, I either liked it or LOVED it. There is no need to tear down authors. <br /><br />Also, the "Big 5" publishers that Debbie refers to send me boxes of books for review as does every small publishing house. I pick and choose what to review. I am not compensated in any way by any publisher. It is up to the blogger, reviewer, columnist to review whatever book their choose.Thompson McLeodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951520332827222155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-70795727387782506922017-03-31T13:02:22.616-05:002017-03-31T13:02:22.616-05:00I tend to agree with the "two words" the...I tend to agree with the "two words" theory.<br /><br />"Isolated" is accurate. <br /><br />So now we are down to one word.<br /><br />"Nobody" is an inaccurate term as to who "knew they were there." Local Natives knew they were there, but so did local Anglos and Hispanics in Albuquerque. Do we really think the children of any of those three groups would feel marginalized by not being specifically mentioned? <br /><br />Is this really a good reason to not recommend a book?<br /><br /> Or is it an opportunity for a teacher to ask students, "Is this accurate? Who might have known about the giant facility they were building in the mountains?" Local kids of ALL local cultures might have grandparents and great grandparents who DID know.<br /><br /><br />Another more accurate approach might have been been to say that nobody knew WHY they were there, which is really the point of a secret project, and the focus of the book.<br /><br />This is drama over a very minor point. If you fight to the death over a mosquito, no one will listen to you when you point out the dragons.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-92216609338693311842017-03-31T12:53:04.653-05:002017-03-31T12:53:04.653-05:00I don't necessarily think that the "big k...I don't necessarily think that the "big kidlit bloggers" are always positive and never negative. I've never seen any negativity from Matthew Winner, but Betsy Bird and Travis Jonker both try to be honest and objective, I think. Of course, you're welcome to read or not read whatever you like, but I do feel like if you cut yourself off from those major blogs, there will be good work and new books that you will miss. You might even be hurting yourself professionally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-9613312957025585332017-03-31T11:33:18.216-05:002017-03-31T11:33:18.216-05:00It isn't that hard to say "not many peopl...It isn't that hard to say "not many people know they were there" instead of "Nobody." Its the same number of syllables so the cadence of the sentence remains. But more the point, it's more accurate.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm troubled by "rockstar" librarians only praising books and staying away from critique. It smells of one who does not want to rock their close relationship with publishers. Publishers need to be aware of these issues and so they try harder to stop publishing problematic material, and if they don't catch these issues in house, then perhaps a close reading by librarians may help.<br /><br />I think I may stay away from the big kitlit librarian blogs now. I've always appreciated the institutional reviews because they're honest: "This book is great because of x, y, z, but it does a, b, c, so we wont' give it a star." (To be overly simplistic.) To have blogs pushing kid books but only focusing on the positive seems disingenuous and a little like another way for publishers to market their books... <br /><br />I left publishing and went into librarianship because of the opportunities for nuance and honesty--I could celebrate and be critical of books when recommending them to children and families. Kids are smart, they'll likely want to read the book anyway and decisions for themselves. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-84667972456240178062017-03-31T10:11:00.140-05:002017-03-31T10:11:00.140-05:00It came down to two words--"isolated" an...It came down to two words--"isolated" and "nobody."<br /><br />Isolated means far from a population center--which Los Alamos WAS. It's the reason they chose that location FFS. She takes it to mean no one lived there, which it does not mean.<br /><br />"Nobody knew they were there." Well, obvi someone knew. "Only a few people besides the local Native Americans" would have been more accurate, but REALLY???! This is not marginalizing anyone, you're dinging the author for not specifying which groups of people were unaware of the Manhattan Project. <br /><br />So now you question if she should participate at all, I say no.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-55926464980511138352017-03-30T17:34:51.813-05:002017-03-30T17:34:51.813-05:00It is true that Matthew Winner does not "owe&...It is true that Matthew Winner does not "owe" Debbie a platform. But nor do we owe him immunity from judgment about his choices. He chose to withdraw his offer of a platform despite knowing that she "saw something that we did not see in our reads through the book." He judged that making his readers aware of that "something" was less important than placating S&S and the Winters. He can do that. He has that right.<br /><br />And we have the right to criticize him for having such craven priorities. <br /><br />--VeronicaUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18255579796886276754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-71571239449664677182017-03-30T13:29:57.609-05:002017-03-30T13:29:57.609-05:00I am a bit confused as to why Debbie was hounding ...I am a bit confused as to why Debbie was hounding Matthew all week on Twitter for a public response, when she had an email response from him that she didn't answer. It sounds like she really wanted to ramp up the public drama. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-69368060544954451422017-03-30T13:17:26.240-05:002017-03-30T13:17:26.240-05:00Ironically, Justina Ireland just Tweeted on anothe...Ironically, Justina Ireland just Tweeted on another issue:<br /><br /> <br /> Ergo, Racism.Verified account @justinaireland 4h4 hours ago<br /><br /> Hi. Here's a daily reminder that no one owes you a platform.<br /><br />She is entirely right. If Wimmer feels he made an error in putting up Debbie's review on his blog, it is more than reasonable for him to take it down, no matter what the reason. His reason is just exceptionally reasonable. <br /><br />Debbie's point of view can and will get discussed elsewhere, like here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-10548230440076903172017-03-30T12:21:55.274-05:002017-03-30T12:21:55.274-05:00I am fascinated by the folks who are saying that t...I am fascinated by the folks who are saying that to celebrate a book that we then have to universally say it is great without any criticism, that someone can't both appreciate a piece of art and yet acknowledge that it is in some ways problematic. I also have concerns about librarians selling out to publishers. This is how we end up with causal racism, sexism, homophobia being ignored, because we choose not to poke any holes in the greatness of a work. Troubling. Thank you Debbie for bringing this and so many other things to light. lisaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10750987686229067246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-11380614833435037642017-03-30T11:38:00.856-05:002017-03-30T11:38:00.856-05:00If Karen is correct in that All the wonder is only...If Karen is correct in that All the wonder is only for positive reviews, then it's time to seriously question it's value. To acknowledge there are issues with a work and ignore them really highlights the lack of credibility in the publishing and promotional reviewing industry. If All the wonder took debbie reese's concerns seriously, quite frankly they should have pulled the promotion/celebration of the work. Of course, if they did so that would impact their relationship with the publisher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-19136004716641203612017-03-30T11:37:17.628-05:002017-03-30T11:37:17.628-05:00Honestly, this makes me question the effectiveness...Honestly, this makes me question the effectiveness of All the Wonders as a reliable source for choosing books. A site that celebrates problematic books without addressing these problems or looking at the bigger context, and a site that is so willing to submit to the whims and demands of publishers and authors in this way, seems like a site focused on supporting the needs of the publisher, not readers or schools and library staff. Debbie Reese was able to easily note two books celebrated by All the Wonders that have been rightly criticized for their portrayal (or lack there) of marginalized groups. Do we really need yet another source praising problematic materials? <br /><br />Now maybe this is a simplified way of looking at this, but I've just seen this too often. It happens with reviews, with article, with research. Texts are praised by those who are unfamiliar with the cultures, themes, and representations present in the book (generally white folks). It is why I've been trying to seek out more voices like Debbie Reese, to better understand the problem and to see a bigger picture. <br /><br />Celebrating books is a great thing, but more really needs to be done to ensure that those being praised and celebrated are thoroughly vetted as accurate representations. <br />~ZeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-18192900470074658092017-03-30T09:51:15.844-05:002017-03-30T09:51:15.844-05:00I agree with Karen. There are other places for thi...I agree with Karen. There are other places for this type of discussion, like Heavy Medal and Reading While White, and this blog as well. All the Wonders has always been about celebrating books, and isn't the venue for this kind of discussion. The mistake including your review in the beginning, if they didn't mean to keep it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-63345537838551032162017-03-30T09:27:50.339-05:002017-03-30T09:27:50.339-05:00Karen - what I perceive the difference between All...Karen - what I perceive the difference between All the Wonders and Booklist to be is that Booklist just does not publish reviews for books they have negative opinions of, but they don't spin all reviews positive. That's an important distinction! I also don't publish heavily negative reviews on my blog - I choose not to cover these books at all. If a book is to be covered, it should be covered in all of its glory - good bad and ugly UNLESS it is marketed as an advertisement. Then we all know what it is. If a book is only controversial in its writing quality, that is one thing. But inaccurately depicting specific people/cultures/places IS a problem. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08234613904464608619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-55650800733421791032017-03-30T08:51:55.909-05:002017-03-30T08:51:55.909-05:00I agree with Matthew Winner and his team at All th...I agree with Matthew Winner and his team at All the Wonder on their decision to pull Debbie's Second Perspective, which was at the heart, a negative critique of the book The Secret Project. They are, like Booklist magazine, a source of POSITIVE reviews for children's books. If Debbie can provide a blog entry for them that shares what she believes to be excellent books about/by Native Americans for children, that will fit with their mission. Negative criticism is not what All the Wonder is about.Karen Perrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-37330294368765898192017-03-30T07:41:13.614-05:002017-03-30T07:41:13.614-05:00I am glad I found this thread and will be sharing ...I am glad I found this thread and will be sharing it and all perspectives at the Virginia Hamilton Conference on Multicultural Literature next weekend at Kent State. I am saddened by these events and the decision to pull Debbie's perspective piece. I appreciate all the viewpoints, but I. too, still wonder was there pressure from S&S? As a retired school librarian, now children's writer, I feel reviews must be honest and be in service of our intended audience. Information that enhances and sheds a clearer light on event must be there for readers and those who select and put books in children's hands. Kathy Halseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11600954824509054774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-82616479163924470152017-03-29T20:41:32.013-05:002017-03-29T20:41:32.013-05:00Hi everyone. I want to apologize publically here t...Hi everyone. I want to apologize publically here to anyone who was offended by our decision to include Debbie’s review of The Secret Project in our feature at All Wonders and then retract it later that day.<br /><br />We feature one book each month in addition to our regular content, and the selected book is one that our team believes stands above the rest. We think of our features as an award from our team, and we honor the chosen book by compiling various forms of content that celebrate it. We even describe the feature to the artists involved as "a week-long celebration of your book." These words, we believe, enter us into a verbal agreement that we will shine a positive light on their work, and it is based upon this agreement that the publisher grants us permission to license their images, words, and behind-the-scenes content. I made a misstep, then, by surprising Jonah and Jeanette Winter and their publisher, Simon & Schuster, with a critique, and introducing an element of debate into the feature. After careful reconsideration of these factors, we decided to pull the post. <br /><br />I know now that this series of events confused and offended a number of individuals. I am sorry for that. We (myself along with the team) had the best intentions, which was to offer a “second perspective” post from Debbie, who saw something that we did not see in our reads through the book. We consider critically all of the books that we include on our site, and we welcome discussions about how they are serving readers, but our features in particular are not designed for that purpose. They are designed to give children multiple entry points into what we believe to be special books. <br /><br />Once we came to the decision to pull Debbie’s post, we immediately communicated to her via email that we would be removing her post for these reasons and gave her an open invitation to address American Indian representation in children’s books on our site or in the form of a Twitter chat. Though we are still waiting for an official response from Debbie, it is our sincere hope that she will choose to work with us in the future to raise awareness about misrepresentations of American Indians in children’s literature.<br /><br />Our goal at All the Wonders is not to silence, but to raise the voices of authors, artists, bloggers, and critics in service of readers. I regret the way these events have unfolded, but I consider this an opportunity to learn from our mistakes and a renewal of our mission to build positive relationships with all of our colleagues. <br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Matthew C. Winner<br />All The Wonders co-founderMatthew C. Winnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04547497125791927580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-71853587479071546302017-03-27T15:07:02.663-05:002017-03-27T15:07:02.663-05:00Thank you for the update on this, Debbie.
It'...Thank you for the update on this, Debbie.<br /><br />It's sad, but no surprise that in a field that's 80+% women, it's three men who are designated "rock stars."Laurel Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11676579231378448040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-24996987698277940502017-03-26T08:10:02.246-05:002017-03-26T08:10:02.246-05:00I'd also like to know why they removed your re...I'd also like to know why they removed your review. Having multiple points of view about books is crucial to teachers and parents who buy those books - it doesn't serve any readers well (kids or adults) to remove those points of view. karastewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17689384820233898083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-37411787036780850462017-03-25T17:23:09.124-05:002017-03-25T17:23:09.124-05:00I thought Winner and co-writer’s SLJ rebuttal to t...I thought Winner and co-writer’s SLJ rebuttal to the rockstar article wimped out and was mansplaining women issues to it's audience. Discussing what they plan on doing about it-- sometime in the future-- was not impressive, talk is cheap. I’m not surprised by this second wimp out. S&S wants to sell a book and not be challenged. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com