tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post4390888716209400373..comments2024-03-27T14:08:51.191-05:00Comments on American Indians in Children's Literature (AICL): Part II --- Neil Gaiman on "a few dead Indians"Debbie Reesehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-56451141834174052962010-10-15T18:22:44.950-05:002010-10-15T18:22:44.950-05:00Debbie: Astute spelling comment! Yes, I do live in...Debbie: Astute spelling comment! Yes, I do live in England. My mother is British/Hungarian Jew and my father was an American- part Ojibwe, from Michigan. I'm what you might call a bit of a mixed bag to be honest. I will definitely carry on looking at your blog as there's understandably a lot less in the way of Native American resources in the UK. It's interesting to see the lack of cultural awareness from schools and such like, as there's such a huge presence from what is the equivalent- Celtic heritage, over here. Good luck in your work!Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-55639883835012577272010-10-13T00:26:59.385-05:002010-10-13T00:26:59.385-05:00Igloos (and wigwams and other snow-lodges) are ano...Igloos (and wigwams and other snow-lodges) are another issue my GF takes issue with. Part of the "cultural image" of the eskimo/inuit people is that they live places where there isn't any "ground" aside from snow and ice. That couldn't be farther from the truth; while the ground is snow-covered for much of the year, we really don't get all that much snow. As such, it is common for a family unit to have a fixed "Village" and the only people who ever use "igloos" or "wigwams" would be the hunters. Or a couple fixed villages, depending on the time of year.<br /><br />One thing that saddens me, as an outsider looking into the eskimo culture is how little credit they receive for their solutions to the harshness of living in their native environment. For example, much of the territory inhabited by the Inupiat is so perfectly flat that it poses problems even for experienced outdoorsmen.<br /><br />Imagine having to hunt in such an environment. No trees to climb to get a vantage point, no hills, no ladders or stands due to lack of wood. How do you get a perspective higher than your ground-bound eyeballs?<br /><br />The Inupiat's ingenious solution? Put one of the sharper eyed children on a blanket and toss 'em into the air. Simple, ingenious, and effective. . . <br /><br />Sadly, it seems that many native Alaskans are stuck in what I refer to as a "Cultural Identity Crisis." This is manifested by the generational gap between children who generally don't speak their pure native language, and the adults who do, and generally speak heavily accented English. Culturally, things are being lost.<br /><br />Anyhow, an interesting article for anyone wanting to read about an outsider's perspective on an isolated native villiage: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601144.html While Savoonga is more isolated than most, the problems faced there are fairly typical of the more remote villages in Alaska.Cryogaijinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773298495668122561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-66802348283751225592010-10-12T22:43:31.197-05:002010-10-12T22:43:31.197-05:00This may have been written before, but I do think ...This may have been written before, but I do think it's important to consider the overall context of Neil's response. On the surface, it was an admittedly poor attempt at humor. Neil is an experienced writer of satire, however, and even the most flippant of Neil's comments serve to educate his audience. Taken as a stream of consciousness, Neil's response can be interpreted as a critique of the popular view of American history. (Human conciousness and the underlying nature of communication are far from understood, after all, despite the best efforts of philosphers, politicians, and funny book authors.) (Food for thought: "Funny book author," defusive or pejorative?)<br /><br />Rather than guilt their perpetrators into uncomfortable and unncessary apologies, we should use such remarks to encourage positive and objective discussion. You and Neil both are fortunate and rich in the knowledge of your heritage, either by lineage or custom. Many of us lack such wealth. We are the product of the tumultuous joining of many cultures, and our graveyards are replete with the sanctimonious vestiages of our past.Trevor Scrogginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16463724624859133612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-53326318036159232432010-10-12T12:51:56.604-05:002010-10-12T12:51:56.604-05:00Thank YOU, knitography, for your comments, but als...Thank YOU, knitography, for your comments, but also for a new word (for me): fan-wank. I like it.Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-8292138971619958452010-10-12T12:41:55.503-05:002010-10-12T12:41:55.503-05:00I actually found your blog through this incident w...I actually found your blog through this incident with Neil Gaiman - I'm a fan, though not the kind that feels she needs to rush to his defense (he's a popular author with a widely read blog and twitter account, he's quite capable of speaking for himself).<br /><br />I've really enjoyed reading your thoughtful comments on the original interview, and on Gaiman's response. For those who choose to really engage with the questions you raise rather than reacting with knee-jerk fan-wank, there is a great deal of food for thought in your writing, and I thank you for that.knitographyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481883017780837686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-9152028921556406612010-10-12T11:21:32.422-05:002010-10-12T11:21:32.422-05:00TakesTheCake---You didn't throw up. If you had...TakesTheCake---You didn't throw up. If you had, I wouldn't have okayed your comment.<br /><br />Don't take my last comment as a suggestion that you go away. <br /><br />You said some things that I, too, would have said in response to WyldChyld.Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-41532352681651433332010-10-12T10:27:00.127-05:002010-10-12T10:27:00.127-05:00Debbie, I apolgise if I appear to have "throw...Debbie, I apolgise if I appear to have "thrown up" on your blog! You are correct - words are powerful, and it behoves me to consider how I use them.TakesTheCakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-27504051283526334332010-10-12T10:03:31.812-05:002010-10-12T10:03:31.812-05:00WyldChyld and TakesTheCake,
I moderate comments o...WyldChyld and TakesTheCake,<br /><br />I moderate comments on my blog in order to keep spam from appearing, and, because I sometimes get obscene or angry rants that don't address the topic under discussion. <br /><br />I've okayed every comment submitted so far but I don't want the comment-conversation to become a personal fight about who is or isn't racist, etc. <br /><br />If I think that a submitted comment has something in it that might help with this conversation, I'll okay it for upload, but if not, you won't see it. <br /><br />It makes me a bit uncomfortable to say that I'll control what appears on the site, but, I think you can look over my site and read all the comments submitted and see a lot of dissent to my writing, and sometimes, anger. I don't delete/deny dissent. I think it is important to share and study differing perspectives on the topics I write about.<br /><br />That word---racist---is what caused the firestorm over Gaiman's "few dead Indians" back in April. It is a word that immediately sets people on edge. I rarely use it. I didn't use it to describe Gaiman, nor do I think he's racist. <br /><br />There's a lot of racism out there, some of it deliberately so, but most of it, in my view, is due to ignorance. I use that word 'ignorance' to mean 'not knowing' rather than 'stupid.'<br /><br />And the 'not knowing' about American Indians is really really deep and its all over the place. From the books children read to the watermelong I bought in the store two nights ago (it had a sticker on it from "Indian Farms" and the logo was the stereotypical Indian-in-a-headdress). <br /><br />I think that depth and pervasiveness is why the reporter didn't push Gaiman on his remark, and, its the reason nobody voiced an objection to it.Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-90775206476689085322010-10-12T09:42:36.415-05:002010-10-12T09:42:36.415-05:00Alex,
Thanks for writing. A couple of questions. ...Alex,<br /><br />Thanks for writing. A couple of questions. You spelled 'realise' with an s, so I'm guessing you're in England? And, you're part Native. I'd love to hear more about how you or perhaps your ancestors ended up there, and what your tribal nation is, too.<br /><br />I've not read American Gods, but it got mixed reviews for Native content. <br /><br />Last, I'm glad you visited my site and took a few minutes to write. I hope you stay around and read more.Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-77433323215755497462010-10-12T09:08:38.125-05:002010-10-12T09:08:38.125-05:00WyldChyld,
"Whatever she meant, she is clear...WyldChyld,<br /><br />"Whatever she meant, she is clearly using the misconstrued words of a very decent man to further her agenda, however admirable that agenda may be. I am not questioning her intentions, only her methods."<br /><br />So I'm curious: how would your methods be different? What would you do differently?<br /><br />"And what do you mean "people like me?" THAT sounds prejudiced. Yet you have the nerve to call me racist? Or just my words?"<br /><br />Yes - I admit that I probably said "people like you" to get a rise out of you, but that's all. <br /><br />"That's reprehensible. Racism is a very serious charge, yet you throw it around like a poisonous football."<br /><br />Nope. I wasn't calling you a racist. Your statement "comes across as being racist." This poisonous football is being thrown all around our society, every minute of every day. You know this. Do you hesitate to catch it when it's directed at you? Your analogy of the poisonous football is a great one - because we are all caught up in this awful game, together. And all of us have to put it to an end. You are part of this game just as much as Debbie is, just as much as Neil Gaiman is, just as much as I am. Wouldn't you agree?<br /><br />"I never said "You're making a big deal out of this." I never insinuated that it wasn't a big deal. I never even said Reese was making a mountain out of a molehill"<br /><br />I interpreted that from your comment here: "Making a mountain out of a molehill is forgivable..."<br /><br />"no author should be coerced into turning his storytelling into a vendetta to persecute "racists."<br /><br />In the original incident, NG was not storytelling. He was being interviewed. Nobody is asking for him to persecute anybody else. <br /><br />"For your information, I am currently enrolled in a Native American anthropology class."<br /><br />This does not automatically give you (or me, or anyone) a pass to be free from ignorance.<br /><br />"No one despises white supremacy more than me (you probably ASSUMED I was white)."<br /><br />You don't need to be white to be racist - I've said some racist/unthinking/stereotypical/prejudicial/ignorant things in my time and I am far from white. I don't expect you to be white.<br /><br />"I find it very interesting, which is part of the reason I came to this site. It is unfortunate that, far from being given a warm welcome, I was accused of being a racist....But intentions always come secondary to agenda, which in this case seems to be a rigid adherence to political correctness that libelously labels people as "racists" for the slightest misstep. How classy, how cordial."<br /><br />WyldChyld, this is Debbie's blog - and this is also, to the extent that she feels it appropriate, a public forum for debate and discussion. I responded to your original comment, which was far from neutral. You sounded pretty definite about what you felt Debbie was doing. Did you not expect to get challenged? Are such issues of racism, to you, warm and fuzzy things to be cuddled? You yourself have stated that it is a poisonous football! I agree! <br /><br />And are her words going to hold you back from challenging yourself to learn more? Are mine? Are her words going to be "ignored or dismissed" by you? Yes -- that would be a shame. <br /><br />Someone dear to me always says, "Everyone deserves a chance to learn." WyldChyld, ultimately my argument is not with you as a person. We both (we all) share a common enemy that makes ordinary people like NG say things they don't mean to say (things they don't sometimes know they're saying) - and it's that enemy we need to defeat.<br /><br />You still haven't answered my question to you: is racism not a problem that belongs to all of us, Neil Gaiman included? Therefore, is speaking against racism not everyone's agenda?TakesTheCakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-2099465612797955462010-10-12T08:44:14.793-05:002010-10-12T08:44:14.793-05:00Thanks, Claire!
WyldChyld---Clearly, you and I ha...Thanks, Claire!<br /><br />WyldChyld---Clearly, you and I have different views of what a response to Gaiman might best be done---or not done. We could debate all of that, but I'm not sure how productive that would be.<br /><br />In your second comment, you noted that you're in an Anthro class. I wonder if your prof is providing you with readings by Native writers and researchers. <br /><br />If not, you might want to take a look at Vine Deloria's book, CUSTER DIED FOR YOUR SINS, specifically his chapter about anthropologists. <br /><br />You might want to listen to Floyd Crow Westerman's song, based on Deloria's chapter. Here's a youtube link to it:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY_a-HjdiOE<br /><br />And you might want to look at Beatrice Medicine's book, LEARNING TO BE AN ANTHROPOLOGIST AND REMAINING 'NATIVE'---see here for info:<br /><br />http://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catalog/47fnm4wk9780252069796.html<br /><br />You might also take a look on my blog for things I've written about the work of early anthropologists, or, my article PROCEED WITH CAUTION, published in LANGUAGE ARTS. If you send me an email, I can send it to you.Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-26595854702894603452010-10-12T07:50:49.535-05:002010-10-12T07:50:49.535-05:00Anon at 1:03 PM---
Thanks for the info re the use...Anon at 1:03 PM---<br /><br />Thanks for the info re the use of Inuit. I didn't know that. <br /><br />Definitely, the Yup'ik and Inupiat peoples are grossly stereotyped in children's books. For example, Igloos are often shown to be the size of dog houses. I wrote about that on Dec 31, 2007: <br /><br />http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com/2007/12/jan-brett-and-sherman-alexie.html<br /><br />Looking at the post today, I see I used "Inuit" and will need to find Brett's book to see if I used it because she used it, and if so, I'll need to clarify all of that.Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-76046000087161710632010-10-12T03:18:56.200-05:002010-10-12T03:18:56.200-05:00TakesTheCake, Reese said quite specifically: "...TakesTheCake, Reese said quite specifically: "What I wanted from Neil Gaiman was for him to say this:" That sounds pretty literal to me. Whatever she meant, she is clearly using the misconstrued words of a very decent man to further her agenda, however admirable that agenda may be. I am not questioning her intentions, only her methods.<br /><br />And what do you mean "people like me?" THAT sounds prejudiced. Yet you have the nerve to call me racist? Or just my words? That's reprehensible. Racism is a very serious charge, yet you throw it around like a poisonous football.<br /><br />You have also seriously misrepresented my words, what I can only take to be intentional deception. I never said "You're making a big deal out of this." I never insinuated that it wasn't a big deal. I never even said Reese was making a mountain out of a molehill; in fact, I was only regurgitating her own words to make my point, which is that no author should be coerced into turning his storytelling into a vendetta to persecute "racists." I put the term in quotations because you use the epithet so loosely.<br /><br />For your information, I am currently enrolled in a Native American anthropology class. I find it very interesting, which is part of the reason I came to this site. It is unfortunate that, far from being given a warm welcome, I was accused of being a racist. No one despises white supremacy more than me (you probably ASSUMED I was white). But intentions always come secondary to agenda, which in this case seems to be a rigid adherence to political correctness that libelously labels people as "racists" for the slightest misstep. How classy, how cordial.WyldChyldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16335013549844947677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-34612104693426226382010-10-11T14:44:08.386-05:002010-10-11T14:44:08.386-05:00Dear Neil Gaiman Fans, if you are thinking of maki...Dear Neil Gaiman Fans, if you are thinking of making a critical comment, please just don't. I'm pretty sure Mr. Gaiman wrote his post very carefully so as to minimize comment on this firestorm. I can't believe he would thank you for stirring things up on his behalf.<br /><br />If you don't agree with Debbie's position, maybe you could just follow the blog for a while and bring up your disagreement in the future so it sounds as if this is a considered opinion of yours and not just you ranting on Gaiman's behalf, which frankly, is good only for embarrassing yourself and the man you are trying to stick up for. <br /><br />I assure you that Debbie, if not all of her commenters, will listen carefully to your opinion and respond as thoughtfully as she can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-6862197782667781982010-10-11T12:35:23.361-05:002010-10-11T12:35:23.361-05:00@WyldChyld:
I didn't read Debbie's post a...@WyldChyld:<br /><br />I didn't read Debbie's post as a literal directive to have NG say exactly what she had put down. She's raising larger questions about his response that he himself didn't bring up, and possible reasons for this occurrence. <br /><br />Racism and white supremacy today are largely expressed by what is considered inocuous - or what people like you would consider "molehills."<br /><br />So, for you to respond by saying "Debbie, you're making a big deal out of this" easily comes across as racist. <br /><br />Do you really believe that human beings, including NG, should not speak against racism? Anti-Semitism? Hate speech?<br /><br />I hope not.<br /><br />This is not Debbie's agenda. <br />This is everyone's agenda. <br /><br />I hope you take it upon yourself to do some further readings, on this blog and elsewhere (try some Frantz Fanon). And in so doing, I hope this becomes your issue too.TakesTheCakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-12508762053531912622010-10-10T21:06:38.739-05:002010-10-10T21:06:38.739-05:00I have a huge amount of respect for what you are a...I have a huge amount of respect for what you are achieving with this blog but I think in this case your unrest is misdirected. Yes, people need to put a lot more thought into how American Indians are considered and portrayed (especially prominent authors) but I think Neil Gaiman was incredibly humble to offer such a public apology. I realise that you weren't after an apology but I don't consider that a reason to shrug one off when given. To be fair to Gaiman, and please do not think I am belittling your cause, it really is not his battle to fight. Out of the many authors who seem to ignore the very existence of American Indians he is one of the few who have given them an important place in his work (see American Gods).<br /><br />I will admit to being a Neil Gaiman fan so you can call me biased if you like. I will also admit to being part American Indian (also a Jew by the way) if that helps even it out a bit. <br /><br />I will say one more thing, I find your work very interesting and would never have stumbled on it were it not for the link on Gaiman's blog. Surely even as a minor thing that in itself is helping raise awareness for your cause? It raised MY awareness anyway!Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-7014497922408973732010-10-10T19:34:01.592-05:002010-10-10T19:34:01.592-05:00This is worse than ungracious. Making a mountain o...This is worse than ungracious. Making a mountain out of a molehill is forgivable, but taking out your (righteous) anger on a man who misspoke is inappropriate at best. Just because Neil Gaiman doesn't say EXACTLY what you want him to say does not mean that he should bear criticism for it. He is a storyteller, and as such it is not his role or place to further the agenda of ANYONE. Holding him (or anyone) to that standard only ensures that your message will never get through--and if it does, it will be upbraided or ignored or dismissed, which is a shame.WyldChyldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16335013549844947677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-41212548037158000912010-10-10T16:41:01.419-05:002010-10-10T16:41:01.419-05:00I find your commentary on this and your blog at la...I find your commentary on this and your blog at large so enlightening and interesting and thought prompting. Thank you!Clairehttp://www.illustratorclaire.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27760240.post-26824889522639892142010-10-10T13:03:27.255-05:002010-10-10T13:03:27.255-05:00One's voice on the internet can be a powerful ...One's voice on the internet can be a powerful thing. While it is true that I exclusively follow celebs, I've picked my celebs with some care. Neil Gaiman I follow not so much because I am a fan (Which I am, mildly) but because the works that influenced him the most are the same works I grew up with. (Roger Zelazny, etc) As such I've actually read more of your blog than his.<br /><br />Given that I'm dating a yup'ik (eskimo) girl, there may be reasons for this.<br /><br />I will admit to having my own biases on the subject; there is a great deal of "whitewashing" of the history of northern people. For example, many laypeople consider Aleuts and Athabaskans to be "eskimos" not "indians" which virtually all native alaskans find offensive. Likewise most people visiting alaska tend to refer to the Eskimo groups up here (Notably the Yup'ik and Inupiat) as "Inuit" which is also found to be offensive. (They consider it to be a made-up PC word that doesn't apply.) <br /><br />The subject of race relations is far more complex than most people realize, and you generally won't notice until you become embroiled in them.Cryogaijinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773298495668122561noreply@blogger.com